I’m merely bringing it up because of the way that the County currently handles things in that area… If its not part of the discussion each V/C would be under the impression that independent funds raised will be theirs, but if under the control and oversight of a County department, they would not be able to—as the policy and procedure are now—that’s why it needs to be considered and addressed. Additionally, if a new County department were to “balance” the needs of the County and each V/C to ensure that the resources are best utilized for the County and each V/C then no V/C would need to fundraise and keep those funds for themselves.

The way the County looks at it is, if the money wasn’t requested in your budget, you don’t need it. If someone donated money (or you fundraise), that money would be in excess of your budget request. To ensure that no single department of the County is “hogging” funds from the General Fund and then generates additional funds donations, etc., everyone draws from the same pot—any donations, etc. have to go into that single pot. If money wasn’t budgeted, and you do need, you go before Fiscal Services and the Commissioners to authorize a Budget Transfer Request—some departments get these without question. Emergency Services have been hounded by the Commissioners for BTRs in the past.

The only way to currently circumvent that is if a donation was made for a specific purpose. The Jaycees does this quite frequently. Instead of giving a donation of $25,000 to the Sheriff’s Office, they raise funds and donate $25,000 for the purchase of Tasers for the Sheriff’s Office; or $5,000 for the purchase of body armor; or $1,000 for a specific purpose. General donations couldn’t be spent in this manner. People donating money to the Animal Shelter (NOT the Humane Society—two completely different entities, the Humane Society is not part of the County Government), for instance, assume their money is going to help the animals… unspecified monetary donations go the the General Fund… if someone were to, say, donate expenses to a specific veterinary bill, then the Animal Shelter can keep that. Donations of specific needs, like leashes, dog food, cat food, etc. are allowed. This would be a way for a V/C to circumvent that… IF donations and fundraisers held for a SPECIFIC need, then that would more than likely be allowed, however, the accounting of such donations and fundraisers would probably be quite tedious, as I assume that those types of specific needs would be for rather large dollar amounts being raised in rather small increments.

I still, though, stand by the position that if a County department was created to oversee and manage all of the Fire/EMS resources in the County that there should be no need for a V/C to fundraise. The Director (or, as you’d probably call it, Chief (although, this term wouldn’t be consistent with the County’s current terminology (with the exception of CCSO and CCPS) for someone of that level of position [Director -> Chief -> Superintendent -> Supervisor -> Employee])) would be responsible for ensuring that each Fire/EMS company had the necessary funds, personnel and resources. If they have done their job, why then would any company need additional funds? I completely agree with and support your idea of the creation of this department—or even enveloping this as a new or expanded Division inside the current Department of Emergency Services—but I do think that EVERY facet of the proposal needs to be looked at. Any loose ends, no matter how trivial, will be ammunition for those in opposition to your idea to use to shoot it down and write it off.

Quack,

I would agree that there should be no need for volunteers to raise money if there was a single department, however; if the individual V/C raise money through fund raisers they should be able to keep it.  There are a myriad of items that are not funded through tax dollars that improve moral and company pride as well as provide equipment that improves service.  If Waldorf, for example raises money to enhance their operation I have no problem with that.  The individuals solicited have to give up the money and it does not increase our tax burden.

I guess my issue is this… [I’m using fake numbers, but my point is the same regardless what the total number of companies or dollar figures used] Say there are a total of 5 fire/ems companies for the entire county, there is a total of $1,000,000 requested and approved for the budget for the entire Department to cover all operation expenses for those 5 fire/ems companies. The operational needs of some of the departments is different, meaning that those with larger, more active companies need more resources and thus more money. Instead of $1,000,000 being divided equally by 5, each company gets a percentage based on need. If Waldorf has a need for 60% of the budget and the other four companies only need varying amounts of the remaining 40%, then that’s how that $1,000,000 should be divvied. Now, if Waldorf takes up $600,000 of the total $1,000,000 budget but then can fundraise and receive, through fundraisers and donations, another $200,000 annually, then why should they be allowed to keep it? Instead of being given $600,000 of our tax dollars, and if they are allowed to fundraise they should have been given $400,000 and allowed the extra $200,000 of fundraising/donations to cover their “additional expenses.” This reduces the burden on our tax dollars by 20%, or allows 20% of the budget to make improvements in other companies or areas of the Department or other Departments in the County. Surely the budget needs for Waldorf will be larger than Newburg… but Waldorf’s base for fundraising and donations is larger than Newburg’s too…

If the donations are to improve service or provide specific equipment, then I don’t really have an issue—as I stated with the Jaycees/CCSO example, this happens quite often. But, you’ll notice that the Sheriff’s Office isn’t out there fundraising or soliciting donations on their own—the Jaycees is. The donations from the Jaycees or other agencies aren’t general donations, they’re for a specific purpose for the benefit or the entire department or the County in general. If a fire company has a need for additional equipment, that can’t be budgeted in the short-term, then these types of organizations around the County can fundraise, purchase and donate that equipment to that fire company.

I don’t mean to berate morale and company pride improvements, but I fail to see the connection between fundraising/receiving donations and morale and company pride. I don’t have an issue with a certain level of a department’s budget being spent on ‘morale improvements’—in any County Department—every department should have events, picnics, outings, celebrations, ceremonies, etc., [within reason] to boost morale and build employee camaraderie. Nearly every private corporation does this, and the County, several years ago, did this to varying degrees. I just don’t want to see a single fire/ems company to argue the case for a specific percentage of the budget and then also be able to dominate the fundraising/donations and leave everyone else out to dry.

As for the “myriad of items” that each company needs that aren’t covered by tax dollars, if a single department was created to oversee and manage all fire companies (which is what we’re talking about I though) then there should be nothing that a company needs that aren’t covered by the budget, no matter where those dollars come from. No single company should have an advantage over another. If a company has a need for something that another company doesn’t, then fine, but someone stated somewhere in this thread about disagreeing with some 24 y.o. Chief being able to buy a $1M apparatus because they liked the new shiny chrome rims… or something like that. We’ve had discussion about building new $4-5M stations; sure we need more stations, but the location and total dollar amount spent should be weighed to see where it benefits the COUNTY—not that company. If that company is receiving a single tax cent, their decisions on how to spend all monies (tax or donated) needs to be scrutinized. If they can spend their money anyway they see fit, and raise money anyway they see fit, then they apparently don’t need the tax money to operate, acquire new equipment or build new stations.

Quack,

One other thing; the V/C are incorporated and as such I believe have the right to raise funds.  The creation of a single Fire/EMS Department will not change that.  It will however provide oversight of the budget, training, sop’s, planning, and most importantly accountability.  You could however prohibit fund raising at the Fire/EMS stations as they are technically County Government Property.

smcitizen - 16 July 2008 09:18 PM

Spyglass,

I will counter your arguement with this. The entire city of New Orleans is in a flood zone, Ohhh and we can’t build it in Tompkinsville either because a tornado might hit the building, and don’t look up because the sky is falling. I apoligize for my tone, but your arguement is no more than scare tactics. For the right amount of money you can get any Joe Blow to write a report on anything you want and make it sound offical. The kind of storm you are talking about is a 100 years event, just like the tornado that hit LaPlata. I just don’t buy your arguement.

Previously, you suggested that building on Cobb Island, a known flood zone

http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/HES/Data/CHARCNY.pdf

and its susceptibility to Hurricanes was a scare tactic. It was also your opinion that a hurricane making a direct hit on New Orleans was a once in a lifetime event.

As we watch Gustov approach New Orleans I ask if you have reconsidered your position.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

Remember that Tornadoes have devastated LaPlata twice in the last 100 years. Not once every 100 years as you have incorrectly written.

Nor did any average Joe Blow’s wrote any reports. They former head of Emergency Services in Charles County, two (2) nationally recognized emergency services consultants, and the Charles County Volunteers in 1996 ALL have stated that building a $4,000,000 building on Cobb Island makes NO sense.

The county commissioners and the Fire Board still have the capability to stop this $4,000,000 mistake before Hanna offers its thoughts on the location!

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

4eyes,

Nope, because Cobb Island VFD has a plan for such emergencies, and I trust the leadership of that department to follow that plan. enough said.

smcitizen - 29 August 2008 04:45 PM

4eyes,

Nope, because Cobb Island VFD has a plan for such emergencies, and I trust the leadership of that department to follow that plan. enough said.

Yeah, their plan of action last time there was a major impact (flooding) from a storm, was to put the citizens of CI in harms way, by allowing them to go back onto the island during it’s peak, by driving, and walking through fast moving water.

Yeah, that’s good leadership.

Viper,

It is amazing to me that you seem to be the expert on the way emergencies are managed here in Charles County.  You “listen” to the radio, and “chase” or “show up” on all of these incidents, and then are able to pass judgement on what you think is correct.  It seems to me that you are part of the problem.  Spouting off at the mouth, without a clear understanding of anything.  I would not put past you to be that console operator that shows up on the incidents, carrying his radio, thinking he has a right to respond undispatched.

You come on here and talk about what you hear and think you see, and clearly have no idea about leadership.  There are numerous areas within this county that flood due to rain, or storms, and by definition are not “swift” water.  I am sure that you to have placed your tires in standing water so that you can see what is on the other side.  How else would you be the expert in what is happening in all of these incidents.

I would focus your time and effort on a solution and not being the problem.  Providing a paycheck to someone is not the answer, as you so easily can demonstrate for all of us.  You need to GET A CLUE.

I saw a Waldorf company’s ambulance with a huge scrap down the side. The rumor is that a young volunteer driver struck a mailbox and almost hit an oncoming car. I do not like rumors, so can anyone clarify the event. It seems that it was kept low keyed so the citizens of Charles County would not find out about the mishap. Anyone?

smcitizen,

Please explain why you feel building a new station on Cobb Island is the correct usage of our tax dollars. Please, please leave out emotions and traditions and sway me over to see what it is that you are seeing. I am respectfully asking you to do this so I, no we can better understand your logic. Please counter the points presented in this blog without using emotional points or CIVD’s tradition. Please enlighten me.

Respectfully,

Spyglass

Cobb Island Fire Station Location Analysis from December 2006

SpyGlass,

I’ll see what I can do. I am emotional not because of tradition, but because of ignorance, and I don’t mean that you or anybody else is ignorant. But I believe that most of you have preconceived notions or prejudices on the subject.  You see only what you what to see, tunnel vision so to speak. EVERY post is about the FAILING of the volunteer system, and THAT’S so far from the truth. Sure some stations have problems, but do you really think that the volunteer system is ignoring this? As far as funding, the system does indeed have checks and balances; no other jurisdiction in Southern Maryland has to jump through hoops like the volunteer stations in Charles county do to purchase capital items, and yes some like CIVFD are a bit controversial. If you don’t believe me look at the WASTEFUL spending in my county, St Mary’s, That would over flow this blog in a matter of days. The volunteer in this county and everywhere are a godsend. They save tax payers MILLIONS of dollars every year, AND THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED. And don’t forget that a volunteer paramedic is no different than a paid one. They all go through the same training, take the same tests, and have to recertify.

I will respond to your request, but let me get my thoughts together.

Your friend from the south
smcitizen

Quack,

Come on, this was paid for by a private citizen, Mr. Hocker, who has a financial interest in Cobb Island. (He didn’t want a pier built on land owned by the county for public safety. He opposed this pier because it would interfere where he parks his guest during parties at his summer home.)

What about the study done by the Board of Fire and Rescue? Why don’t you reference that one?
That committee included the following people:

The county Volunteer Chief
CIVFD Rep
Mr. Don McGuire (then Director of Emergency Services)
A citizen from Swan Point
A citizen from Cobb Island.

Each question posted by this document were answered, and I ask in all fairness that that document also be posted to give a FAIR and balanced look on subject. As I have said in my post above, there is alot prejudices on this subject from most of the bloggers on this thread..

Point me to where I can obtain a copy of that study and I’ll post that one too.

smcitizen,

I think it would be interesting for you to explain why this is so important to you in light of the fact you are not a Charles County resident and as such have no stake in the formation of a unified Fire/EMS Department headed by a Career Fire Chief. You continue to post here and provide no justification for the Fire/EMS service remaining the way it is. I applaud your service to your community and the tenacity in which you approach this issue but strongly believe there most be change.  I also believe that the CIVFD issue is a symptom and not the root cause of the problems I have discussed on this thread. Change for the sake of change is bad but change to improve service delivery is good.  Happy Labor Day.

PS:  Don’t be such a career hater.

smcitizen,

Thank you for agreeing to share with the Duck’s readers why you feel (building a new firehouse on Cobb Island is prudent). It is evident that you are connected to Cobb Island’s Department. That is why I asked you to leave out emotions and the department’s traditions. I truly want to hear your argument based solely on logic.

One more question, why do you pretend to be from St. Marys County? How does that false misdirect aide you in our debate.

Carl, not a career hater at all. The system as it is now WORKS. no need to change right now. However a 5 to 10 year plan is in order, to address issue such as staffing respose goals etc.

Spyglass,

I am not from Cobb Island nor do I have any association to Cobb Island. However the debate on this thread has been so one sided. so anti-volunteer, that someone must stand up and say that the volunteers do a great service for the citizens, and to ignore that and not included it in the debate is WRONG.

Quack, I know of its existance, but do not have a copy, I’ll try to get one.

smcitizen,

Now I’m just curious! Do you reside in St. Mary’s County, and do you have any family members involved with Cobb Island Fire Department?

Spyglass - 31 August 2008 03:31 PM

smcitizen,

Now I’m just curious! Do you reside in St. Mary’s County, and do you have any family members involved with Cobb Island Fire Department?

Why does it matter?

I guess it doesn’t. When one lies it is between that person and their maker.

Spyglass - 31 August 2008 08:43 PM

I guess it doesn’t. When one lies it is between that person and their maker.

Isn’t that the truth, there are alot of lies here on this thread.

Spyglass, I am from St. Mary’s County, and I have no interests in CIVFD. NONE! But that should not disqualifiy my opinion or passion about this subject.

smcitizen - 31 August 2008 02:02 PM

Quack, I know of its existance, but do not have a copy, I’ll try to get one.

Thanks.

And I see that we’re confusing arguments here… I don’t want to break up the comments in this topic into two separate ones, but we are having two discussions that are blurring together.

1.) Is the building of a new fire station on Cobb Island the best place and use of resources for the County as a whole, and for the residents of Cobb Island, Swann Point & the surrounding area.

2.) Does the Fire/EMS system in Charles County need to be overhauled; with the possibility of creating a paid Fire Chief to have budgetary, management and response authority of all Fire/EMS resources in the County, collectively (volunteer and career). Many people seem to be misinterpreting this as saying the volunteers are doing a poor job; I don’t believe this is the case, nor do I believe that anyone who has been seriously involved in this discussion believe that to be the case. I don’t believe that anyone wants to replace VFDs with paid firefighters. I believe the argument is about fiduciary responsibility, uniform standards and operating procedures, clear operational command, and better use of County resources on behalf of the County as a whole—not each VFD fending for themselves, but mutually supporting each other.

The Quack - 31 August 2008 11:39 PM

And I see that we’re confusing arguments here… I don’t want to break up the comments in this topic into two separate ones, but we are having two discussions that are blurring together.

1.) Is the building of a new fire station on Cobb Island the best place and use of resources for the County as a whole, and for the residents of Cobb Island, Swann Point & the surrounding area.

2.) Does the Fire/EMS system in Charles County need to be overhauled; with the possibility of creating a paid Fire Chief to have budgetary, management and response authority of all Fire/EMS resources in the County, collectively (volunteer and career). Many people seem to be misinterpreting this as saying the volunteers are doing a poor job; I don’t believe this is the case, nor do I believe that anyone who has been seriously involved in this discussion believe that to be the case. I don’t believe that anyone wants to replace VFDs with paid firefighters. I believe the argument is about fiduciary responsibility, uniform standards and operating procedures, clear operational command, and better use of County resources on behalf of the County as a whole—not each VFD fending for themselves, but mutually supporting each other.

Item 1 highlites the need for a unified department headed by a career Fire Chief.

Item #2, well said.

Quack,

I could not agree more. However a review of the CIVFD is an interesting case study in reviewing mismanagement of our tax dollars for the benefit of a private group that has no accountability to the citizens of Charles County.  The assertion of “lies” in this thread warrants a response and ultimately more documentation for the Quack’s posting consideration. As a hurricane (Gustov) approaches New Orleans for the second time in three years, and Hanna right behind, aimed at the east coast, it should give the Charles County Commissioners pause to review the appropriate placement of the new emergency facility on Cobb Island. SMCITIZEN’s faith in the leadership of this organization is appreciated; however, their arguments are the same as tendered by the CIVFD, leading this writer to believe there is an affiliation as well.  The group “Citizens Concerned about Public Safety in the Cobb Neck Region” (CPR) will provide a series of documents, in the following weeks to the Quack for the public to draw its own conclusions.

SMCITIZEN,

If you truly are a Saint Mary’s County citizen, I too consider your points to be mute and of no merit in this discussion. On the other hand if you are a St. Mary’s county citizen it’s easy to understand why your beliefs are just that……..unsubstantiated by the written record. It’s obvious you’ve been misinformed and never taken the opportunity to talk with all parties impacted by the decisions of CIVFD’s leadership. If you were to take a field trip to Cobb Island you would first notice the constriction of the artery to Cobb Island due the traffic that lines the streets adjacent to Captain John’s and Shymansky’s restaurants and marinas. Then you might have to stop and wait for a boat to launch at Captain John’s before you can get on the island. To launch a boat every driver must block Route 257 completely to straighten their approach to the boat ramp. Once on Cobb Island you would then take notice of the many homes for sale immediately surrounding the CIVFD. I question whether these homeowners support the building of the new facility. Allow me to supply you with factual information as opposed to urban legend supplied to you via an organization that has not debated the statistics in this thread to this point.

The 2006 report appearing on this thread Cobb Island Fire Station Location Analysis from December 2006 by Dave Endicott was not completed for an individual. It was completed for a group of Cobb Neck citizens known as “CPR” (Citizens Concerned about Public Safety in the Cobb Neck Region). Mr. Endicott is respected both nationally and internationally as an emergency services expert. Many CPR members are fearful of the bully pulpit tactics that the CIVFD has endorsed and practiced to push through its private agenda of trying to build on land it simply doesn’t own. (I assume since you are from St. Mary’s County you don’t have access the Charles County land records so CPR will send the Quack a copy of the CIVFD site plan overlaid on the recorded plat for your review.) In short, the fear of retaliation runs deep amongst CPR members.

The Endicott study, linked above, merely confirmed the 1996 comprehensive study performed by Capital Safety Systems (CSS). The Capital Safety Systems comprehensive study was funded and paid for by the Charles County Commissioners in 1996. The study performed by CSS “recommended moving the….(CIVFD)…. off of the Island”.  Subsequent to that report the Charles County Volunteer Fireman’s Association formed an independent committee which was tasked to review the 1996 CSS study. That task force AGREED that the CIVFD should “discontinue renovation of their station and seriously endeavor to construct a new station in a location off the island…”  (Goal 15, Item 12, Page 21, rating summary-Recommendations of the Comprehensive study plan for Charles county Fire, Rescue and Emergency Medical Services.) CPR will forward Quack specific pages of the 1996 report for your review.

As for the 2007 Charles County Board of Fire and Rescue (BOFR) subcommittee study to which you refer, on page one, the committee issued a bold statement “As Charles County law is written, neither the Charles County Commissioners nor any part of County government has the ability to direct operational matters or considerations”.  In other words, the citizens of this county have no say in emergency services provided by these non-profit corporations even though our tax dollars and donations fund their operations. As a tax payer, I am offended by the notion that I have no say in matters that affect my family’s safety. This is especially true since Charles County citizens elect officials whose primary responsibility IS our public safety!

Part II

To respond to an earlier question in these threads, the Volunteer Fire/EMS units are actually private corporations. The land they own is theirs and held in the corporation’s name. That makes their land private property. Unless the Charles County Government exercises eminent domain and takes over these corporations and their holdings, the Volunteer groups could conceivably sell their land and buildings for a significant profit if they chose. Keep in mind it is our tax dollars that build and fund these operation in the first place. While I’m not prone to passing rumors there are some that speculate that CIVFD is building this commercial venture on Cobb Island with the ultimate intent of selling. Because of sewage concerns on Cobb Island there is no way a corporate commercial venture could build a 15,000 square foot building on the island. Once this building is completed it could conceivably be sold for a significant profit. Remember, slots are on the ballot in November. You connect the dots. Rumor or not, building a 15,000 square foot banquet building puts a government sponsored enterprise in direct competition with private enterprise on the island and that should be unacceptable to all business owners. Any profits by the Volunteer organizations should be directed back to the Charles County general fund as part of excess funds.

Four things are most notable in the 2007 sub committee report that reviewed the Endicott study.

1. The call statistics for the CIVFD were incorrect,

A review of the CIVFD call statistics clearly show that the “off island” calls have continued to increase over the past two years. The subcommittee study, which used various statistics supplied by the CIVFD, purports that the rescue boat calls were also included in the “on island” statistics. Rescue boat calls are clearly not “on the island”. Additionally, a number of addresses within ½ mile inland were included in the “on island” calling statistics. A review of the corrected rescue boat and address data shows the EMS “off island” calls increased from 63% in 2006 to 65% year to date 2007. The 2006 “off island” fire calls increased from 72% in 2006 to 77% in 2007. One could suggest that 1 “on island” fire call embedded in the 2006 fire call data should be deleted from the statistics since it was started by CIVFD members who committed arson in order to “have a fire call”. http://www.somdnews.com/stories/100406/indytop190113_32155.shtml

The bottom line is that the majority of calls are made off the island.

As for your faith in the contingency planning of the CIVFD, which CPR has read, it requires the evacuation of the departments’ equipment storing it inland. Isn’t that what this debate is about? The location of emergency equipment and facilities, to best serve the public, is a key component of this web discussion.

2. The Army Corp of Engineers SLOSH Model was intentionally omitted from the sub committees report. (http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/HES/Data/CHARCNY.pdf),

Mr. McGuire, the former head of Emergency Services in Charles County, has written a report subsequent to this committee study. His remarks will speak for themselves. Pay particular attention to his remarks surrounding the use of SLOSH modeling. I will forward to the Quack for your review as well. CPR agrees with your remarks promoting the credibility of Mr. McGuire and his participation in the subcommittee. Mr. McGuire is a credit to the Emergency Planning field. Stay tuned! http://www.nab.usace.army.mil/HES/Data/CHARCNY.pdf

Know that Mr. McGuire’s narrative (which will follow soon) was sent to the Charles County Commissioners and he is very clear that the subcommittee chose to keep this SLOSH model out of the study suggesting that it would provide no new information. A reasonable individual clicking on the link above would find it impossible to come to the same conclusion. Especially as we watch Gustov attacking our brothers and sisters in New Orleans and Hanna determined to hit the east coast.

3. The 1996 Charles County Commissioner’s study was intentionally not reviewed as part of this subcommittee’s responsibilities. Further, the Charles County Volunteer subcommittee report in 1996 was not made part of the review.

The 1996 study is very thick and was not presented in electronic format. Mr. Bowling and the leadership of the CIVFD must have hoped that these two 1996 studies would have disappeared with all the other archived records in a building demolition. The BOFR and Executive committee minutes were stored in Building 104. It contained asbestos and all of the respective Committee meeting minutes including all of Charles County’s archived 911 records was destroyed. CPR however was able to secure a copy of the 1996 Capital Safety Systems report and will share the pertinent pages with the Quack. This contaminated building was also the location containing the minutes of the volunteer executive committee that created the SLUSH fund uncovered earlier in this tread. That fund contains approximately $2,000,000. This issue is being reviewed by the Charles County Attorney because of its violation of County Code paragraph 54-2. This is our tax money and should be given back to the citizens. Maryland is about to report a one billion dollar deficit. A recent article validated that we are the fourth highest taxed state in the nation. http://www.gazette.net/stories/08202008/montnew192324_32538.shtml

How dare the Volunteer system hold our tax dollars, earning interest, to support their private goals.

Part III

4. This subcommittee was hand picked, made up of known CIVFD supporters, and was closed to the public.

Mr. McGuire was an observer member only. The study was presented in notebook fashion to the BOFR and was approximately 5 inches thick and contained very little substance. Ironically the subcommittee’s study agreed with virtually every finding in the Endicott study except for the placement of the new CIVFD building and its Fire Boat location. Can you see any connection here? CPR has a copy of the study and will be happy to share the conclusions with the Quack. It will take some time because the study was not published in electronic fashion. (for a reason?) Good luck getting a copy through the freedom of information act.

The subcommittee created by the Board of Fire and Rescue contained not only a member of the Cobb Island Fire Department but also well known supporters of the CIVFD. A conflict of interest in the creation of this committee was quite obvious. Further, the Board of Fire and Rescue was and is heavily influenced by the current Vice President of the CIVFD, Mr. Sam Bowling. He currently sits as a member of the Charles County Board of Fire and Rescue who, in the absence of the chairman, chairs the Board. This nepotistic relationship and opportunity to influence findings of the committee was an absolute conflict of interest. An independent review of safety in the Cobb Neck Area and the placement of the CIVFD could not take place when members of the committee included personal with a direct personal interest in the CIVFD.

The primary difference between the first three studies of the CIVFD proposed location and the one to which SMCITIZEN is referring is the “participants” analyzing the data. The CIVFD waited long enough for the political climate to change so that it could finally achieve its goal of putting a building on the island to benefit its members, not the public at large.

Most disappointing is that the committee was secretive and closed to the public. One citizen actually attended a single meeting when the subcommittee was uncovered. Mr. McGuire was actually in favor of opening the meeting. There was some spirited debate regarding that citizens’ attendance. Mr. Duane Svites, the subcommittee’s chair and ironically the head of the Volunteer Association, allowed the citizen to remain with the understanding that no input would be allowed from the citizen. Surprisingly Mr. Svites made it clear to the members of the committee that their responsibility was to review the Endicott study and not to deliberate the (independent) study sponsored by the County Commissioners in 1996. As more CPR members attempted to attend a second meeting they were informed the Charles County attorney ruled that the committee meetings could be closed and no other citizen was allowed to attend any further meetings. The closure of such meetings in Charles County has been a long standing problem in my opinion. When citizens attempted to attend the Executive Committee meeting where the CIVFD pitched its new department to the other Volunteers groups, the citizens were promptly asked to leave. I remind you that Sam Bowling controls the purse strings of many of those in the room deciding whether or not they would allow the CIVFD to move forward with its project. These actions do nothing but promote the notion that nepotism and the “good ole boy” network is well entrenched in our county.

Part IV

Lastly, your assertion of a forty foot ROW party pad clearly shows how uninformed you are of history on Cobb Island. Since you are from St. Mary’s County its understandable that you would have missed out on the last 90 years of history on the ROWs on Cobb Island. Research conducted both legal and through countless Cobb Island homeowner interviews, makes CPR as much an expert on the matter as any individual. The Rights of Way (ROWs) to which you refer have been a contentious issue on Cobb Island for decades. The specific 40 foot wide small strip in question is in between two residences with small children and leads to a crowded cove of piers where children swim. If land records have any meaning in the United States, and they do, the rights of private corporations do not supersede that of citizens possessing riparian rights. As I have stated previously the CIVFD and all Charles County Volunteer organizations are private corporations, a fact you might not be aware of as a citizen of St. Mary’s county. The ROWs were platted originally as paper water access ways for the interior island owners. The ROWS were purposely more narrow than the original platted streets because they were never intended to be used as roadways. The interior island ROWs were platted for adjacent property owner’s ingress, egress, and boat storage. Since the original subdividing of Cob Island, many ROWs have been built on, paved, and primarily utilized by the adjacent and surrounding home owners for parking and storage. The second oldest home on Cobb Island actually sits on top of a ROW. Many are also the “De facto” driveways for adjacent homes because no other access to those homes exists. For example, urban legend suggests a former deceased Charles County Sheriff paved his ROW for his driveway because his car kept getting stuck in the mud. Parking on all of the ROWs occurs on Cobb Island because the streets are extremely narrow and there is no “on street parking” for water front owners.  More recently the ROWs on Cobb Island were a divisive issue in 1998. At that time the County Commissioners were attempting to sell all of them to adjacent property owners. That idea was met with a tremendous uproar in the community. There were serious questions being asked regarding whether the County Commissioners owned the ROWs in the first place. Private attorneys, at the time, presented Commissioner Murray Levy with appellate court case law that suggested the County might not own the ROWs on Cobb Island. Additionally, the inland property owners claimed certain rights to these ROWs because of their original deeds and plats. In a nut shell, it was a mess. The commissioners acquiesced and decided to leave the ROWs as they were.

Recently the United States Supreme Court reaffirmed the second amendment in Washington D.C. No less important is the Constitution’s affirmation of property rights. The Cobb Island ROW issue is a fundamental property rights debate. The Quack is right we have two issues under discussion in this thread however both are inextricably linked. We need one leader, one person that works for the citizens of Charles County to make sure our interests are served best. The citizens of Charles County must demand to know what position these 14 + private corporations hold. Are they private corporations and to be treated as such, or are they Quasi or Para-governmental organizations and to treated as such? As it stands the Volunteer organizations hold firm in this position statement: 

“As Charles County law is written, neither the Charles County Commissioners nor any part of County government has the ability to direct operational matters or considerations” (Source: 2007 Subcommittee Study)

4eyes,

Then stop hiding behind this blog a go public.

‘Mr. McGuire was an observer member only”

Nope he sign off on the study. and you know it.

Now I respect Mr. McGuire, but he lost all credibility in this subject when he became a paid consultant for the Swan Point Developer, and conveniently distance himself from a study he participated in.  This whole argument would have merit, but it’s clear to me if you follow the dollars you will see what’s really going on here. Most of the people who pretend to have public safety as their motive are really motivated by greed, money, power, and a position.

I see I am not going to sway anybody here, most of you here are set in your opinion, and nothing I say or do is going to change that. There is another side of this story that’s not being look at, and as I have said before is completely unfair. If you truly believe you have a case, then stop hiding behind screen names, and make a case to the public. But I know what will happen, once the public see all the facts then the public will see a few people who I believe are motivated solely by greed.

I have no more to say, you gentlemen have a great day, and God bless all of you.

I did not think you could prepare a piece arguing your points without emotions or traditions. However, kudos to you! Finally you are in agreement with everyone. $400,000 to the CIVFD, $2,000,000 in a volunteer slush fund…. You are right, it’s all about power and greed, and the money trail leads right to the Volunteer system. Finally, we’re all united in this matter.

God bless you Cobbenite

smcitizen

Yes, I was a member of the committee.  I did not distance myself from the report, nor will I ever.  I strongly believe that there should be a fire house built in the Tompkinsville area and a sub station on Cobb Island.  I did my best to have the SLOSH report included in the final document but was voted down.  And by the way I’ve never been paid by a Swan Point Developer…not that it’s any of your business.

Have a nice day.

Spyglass - 01 September 2008 02:15 PM

I did not think you could prepare a piece arguing your points without emotions or traditions. However, kudos to you! Finally you are in agreement with everyone. $400,000 to the CIVFD, $2,000,000 in a volunteer slush fund…. You are right, it’s all about power and greed, and the money trail leads right to the Volunteer system. Finally, we’re all united in this matter.

God bless you Cobbenite

Here’s a letter referencing that $400,000 request and referring to the $2,000,000 slush fund...

4eyes, Hats off to you. Once again you hit the nail on the head. I get great amusement reading smcitizens ill attempt to sound like a know it all. I remember the study back in 96 quite well and remember what it stated for CIVFD. If CIVFD really cared for their community, they would have built the new station off of the island for the benefit of the WHOLE community (ie a storm shelter for evacuees.) This goes to show everyone how the good ole boys network still works in the county.

Quack,
Yes there is an escrow fund, but it’s not a “SLUSH” fund. It was money set aside for new Fire and EMS stations, but I can see how it could be perceived as a “SLUSH” Fund. When Company 15 was stated they received this money, when Company 14 stared a Fire station is was used to help them, and recently it was used to help Company 13 start their building. The only way that money can be touch is with Board of Fire and Rescue blessing.  This is all public knowledge, no one is hiding anything. This escrowing of money was done by the former Board Chairman and both executive committees, to help new stations get started.

SpyGlass, I can’t defend what was done in Cobb Island, and yes, as hard as it is for me to say, it should have been built off the island. But what is done is done. BUT!, whatever happens in the future so be it.

I do, however with all my heart, defend the volunteers because there is a clear agenda behind some of the people who are posting on this site. Mudding the water so to speak. Those of you who read but don’t post, PLEASE don’t believe everything read here. There is some truth, however as I have said before most of the players here have an agenda and are using this information for their own political gain, and for some to see the complete destruction of the volunteer system for their own personal gain.

I will continue to come to the side of the volunteers, they need a voice. They save the county millions of dollars a year. They have recently saved the county 10’s of thousands of dollars in Waldorf by filling a in a Saturday shift the county EMS could not fill (overtime issue), this too is public record. There are hundreds of dedicated volunteers in this county who work countless hours at the firehouse, from serving on committees, to keeping the building and grounds maintained, to yes Firefighting and EMS all for no paycheck, just the satisfaction of helping a neighbor in need.

Insidejake, no I don’t know everything, but I know a flimflam when I see one.

A few Facts on Volunteers:

The majority of fire departments in the United States are volunteer.
Of the total 30,300 fire departments in the country, 21,575 are all volunteer; 4,092 are mostly volunteer; 1,766 are mostly career; and 2,087 are all career.

Volunteers comprise 72% of firefighters in the United States.
Of the total estimated 1,136,650 volunteer and paid firefighters across the country, 823,350 are volunteer.

Volunteer firefighters and emergency medical technicians across the country meet national and/or state training standards.
Each state adopts its own training requirements that apply to volunteer firefighters. Many states require that volunteers meet the National Fire Protection Association’s Standard 1001: Firefighter Professional Qualifications. This establishes a very rigorous course of classroom and practical evolutions for basic training. This same standard is commonly used to train paid firefighters. Likewise, volunteer emergency medical responders are trained to the national training criteria established by the U.S. Department of Transportation and other standards setting bodies.

Volunteers invest a large amount of time serving their communities.
There is no national average of the amount of time a volunteer firefighter gives to his or her community. Volunteering in the fire and EMS service, however, is one of the most demanding volunteer activities today. Time commitments include operational responses (often at a moment’s notice), training, fundraising, vehicle and station maintenance, and various administrative duties.

This is the most important fact:
If you replaced all volunteers firefighters in America with career staffing it would cost 37.2 BILLION dollars annually.

Volunteer are here to stay.

smcitizen - 02 September 2008 10:26 PM

Quack,
Yes there is an escrow fund, but it’s not a “SLUSH” fund. It was money set aside for new Fire and EMS stations, but I can see how it could be perceived as a “SLUSH” Fund. When Company 15 was stated they received this money, when Company 14 stared a Fire station is was used to help them, and recently it was used to help Company 13 start their building. The only way that money can be touch is with Board of Fire and Rescue blessing.  This is all public knowledge, no one is hiding anything. This escrowing of money was done by the former Board Chairman and both executive committees, to help new stations get started.

If this “SLUSH” fund is for new fire stations, then why did the BoFR give Cobb Island VFD $400,000.00 out of it, because on CIVFD web site it says they’ve been an organized fire department since 1947. Doesn’t sound like a new fire department to me smcitizen.

Viper, I can’t defend that, I just don’t know.

More Documents:
-1996 Capital Safety System Report
-1998 Commissioner Position
-2007 Sub-Committee Report
-CIVFD Site Plan
-Former Emergency Services Director Opinion
-Thompkinsville Site Owned by CIVFD

Well Quack….

I guess you have illustrated that you too are bias as the host of this site.  Why didn’t you just have 4eyes post all those reports?  I am sure that is where they came from.  This thread has clearly been about one person’s quest for personal gain…..

All of the information is clearly one sided, and poor smcitizen is the only one stepping forward to provide any type of argument.  I have been looking around myself and found this link at the Maryland Department of Taxation that shows CIVFD owns Parcel A that is referred to by 4eyes as a right of way.  It seems that the documents provided may be old, and only used to cloud the real issue here.  If you continue to search the taxation website, you will see that the other parcel is also in CIVFD’s name.

Maryland Taxation

I read the article in today’s paper and that too illustrates that there is clearly another agenda here.  I have nothing to gain or lose; I just thought that you may want to see things from a different perspective.

Cobb Island Man Sues

I would strongly urge all those who are reading this thread to do your own research, gather the facts, and draw your own conclusion.  Looking at the beginging of this thread, and where it keeps going, it is only about one thing….personal gain.

As I always say, some of you need to GET A CLUE !!

Get A Clue - 03 September 2008 08:39 PM

Well Quack….

I guess you have illustrated that you too are bias as the host of this site. 

My comments speak for themselves… and, please correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t believe I’ve stated anything for or against Cobb Island VFD or any other career or volunteer fire or ems agency. I have supported Carl Senior’s idea of reforming the entire system, but have advocated that I completely supported the volunteers of this County, despite the connotations others have associated with “reform.”

As for the documents in my last post, I’m merely providing documents that were provided to me. If you (or anyone) has documents to refute any of those I’ve already posted, please send them to me and I will gladly make them available to all—but don’t you dare impugn my integrity.

Wow!

It took me a while to read through all of this stuff. In 1995 Cobb Island was nearly the highest spending fire department in Charles County with the least calls. I notice every other department in Charles County signed off to build off the island. Not until a stacked committee and Commissioner was put together did they get the ok to build on the island.

You all are right that personal gain and power on the part of the CIVFD must be the motive.

Do they have to do audits that the public can see? I didn’t see any new statements which usually means there is something to hide.

Kudos to those of you who have uncovered a corrupt system.

With all of these Hurricanes hitting, letting those good ole boys spend $4 million of my tax dollars on the Island doesn’t make any sense to me!

Where does all of that money go again?

very interesting stuff - not too up on fire issues but there is enough in the posts to raise eyebrows.  let me get this straight the former director for the county emergency office is a PAID CONSULTANT now on issues concerning county emergency items?  The acting or I guess now NEW director of this office has no fire skills and is “hated”, so they say, by the volunteer fire fighters, some nimwit wants to build a fire station on a small island that floods, the county fired a guy who was a fire chief or some such…....argh….  In some places volunteer fire and ambulance people are houses with paid departments…How difficult can it be to figure this all out…Oh wait we are not in the modern world…

justintime - 10 November 2008 12:23 PM

let me get this straight the former director for the county emergency office is a PAID CONSULTANT now on issues concerning county emergency items?

Nope. As I understand it, he served on a committee organized by the Board of Fire and Rescue while he the Director of Emergency Services. He subsequently submitted an additional report to the Commissioners about SLOSH modelling—while he was the Director of Emergency Services. He was not a paid consultant, unless you consider the tax payers paying his salary as the Director of Emergency Services a “paid consultant.”

OK _ I guess…

The facts seem to obvious on their face - Why put a NEW firehouse where it is not really needed, not safe, etc…Just because some folks “want” a taxpayer funded playhouse….?  Don;t really need a consultant to figure that one out do they/we?

Carl Senior - 17 June 2008 03:25 PM

4eyes,  nobody will touch this with a ten foot pole.  You talk about Career EMT’s and Paramedics in the County.  Did you know the Volunteer Departments still earn money from the Career response?  Thats on top of the fee your charged for transport by the career EMT or Paramedic.  This County needs to establish one Department run by one Fire Chief and they need to abolish the Fire Tax System.  West Lake was just approved to purchase a Tower Ladder which will spend most of its time in PG.  The cost of that adventure; about 1 million dollars equipped.

I find it redondunt to have two Ladder and Tower Trucks in the same Town.  Truck Three is always running mutual aid to Prince George’s as well as Accokeek running mutual aid to Charles county.  Bryans Road has a tower, LaPlata has a Ladder Truck and I am not sure if anyone else has this equipment in Charles County.  I do agree with you about having one County Chief, Battallion Chief, ETC.  The main problem that I see with Charles Couty is alot of the current fire and EMS Chiefs have been in their position for year’s. I mean some of them for 20 plus years.  And with that you have what is called the “GOOD OLD BOYS/ ladies CLUB!”  I remember back in the Late 80’s or early 90"s when the Dive rescue team was becoming formed.  There was alot of chief’s fighting them saying that we didn’t need them. Plus where would the be stationed?  They started with a used Snap on Tools truck.  Look nowalmost twenty years later, they have done may water rescues and recoveries. Both in lakes/ponds and our very large western county border called the Potomac River.  They would do better with another Heavy Duty Rescue unit verses a tower.  There are more Traffic accident in the spraling Waldorf area and there are already enough ladder and tower trucks in the area.

Clearly to Kommisioners and their hacks - Komfort and Stevens et al have no spine to make the changes needed to spend taxpayer money efficiently.  It does seem odd to see volunteer fire trucks racing around in what appears to be a frenzied manner a lot of the time - at least compared to cities…  And why does the Waldorf fire station have to sound an alarm for every emergency.  I asked the firefighters there and they had no answer - they told me they are ALWAYS in the fire house so they do not need the siren….?

Merry Christmas Charles County VOLUNTEER Fire Departments… Not that you need anymore presents. God knows the commissioners have given and wasted enough of our tax dollars on new clubhouses and toy trucks. GOOOOO RECESSION!!!

The kind of storm you are talking about is a 100 years event, just like the tornado that hit LaPlata. I just don’t buy your argument.Thanks to everyone.

Regards

Albert

Your 100 year argument would make sense if it were not for the fact that just two weeks ago the road to Cob Island was covered with water. This happens routinely when tides run high. Emergency services professionals will confirm that it takes less than a foot of water to float a car and put citizens and emergency equipment at risk. With a cost of almost $4,000,000 the building is almost complete so the debate is now mute for now.  It is an amazing testimonial to political clout and waste of your tax dollars.
However, the Fire Tax debate is still alive and well. For example, recently the Sheriff’s office was forced to take pay cuts     http://www.somdnews.com/stories/09252009/indymor101531_32178.shtml.

Charles County has never shared publicly what happened to the $2,000,000 slush fund uncovered in the Volunteer’s coffers. The law says it was supposed to be returned to the County’s general fund. This money could have easily kept our law enforcement budget protected for another year had it been returned to the general fund. Where is that money now?
The County’s budget is stressed and it seems that the fire tax doesn’t collect enough from taxpayers for this Volunteer system. Page 111 of Charles County’s quarterly budget shows a new request for money     http://www.charlescounty.org/FS/budget/qrtrlymonitoring.pdf

Why are we paying a fire tax when a fire department can request money from the county in other ways and then have it buried in the fine print? Park request??????
When are our elected officials going to review this antiquated system in a serious manner? Why are our Commissioners not open and honest about funding requests? Maybe our Sherriff’s office should be Volunteers also. They could get funding through the parks budget.

Wow. Cobb Island is at it again. These guys have cojones. If I read the link right they are going to spend $100,000 on a new pier to house their boat. Hasn’t that bad investment of a boat burned through two or three transmissions already? Talk about being buried in the fine print! Cobb Island has fewer calls than any other department yet they seem to get the most money? Is that because of the make up of the Fire Board? Why again am I paying a fire tax when they can ask the commissioners for more money on the side. This is wrong! These are private organizations that are able do to fund raising for things like piers, unlike the Sheriffs office that has to stay within a budget? When I die I want to come back as a Volunteer Fire Department in Charles County!